Intro:

Dave and Bacon's Safety Tales, the only industrial safety podcast that brings you common sense advice on job site safety, standards, regulations, and industry best practices without putting you to sleep.

Renia Carsillo:

What's the point of creating a podcast for your everyday working man? Like, why did you want to do it, or get talked into doing it?

Dave White:

It's probably more of its different. I'm a big believer that if you are going to do something, the only way to really grow is to be really, really super uncomfortable. It was really, really super uncomfortable. By doing that, I think it just makes us better. Again, is you have to practice it, communicating the message; getting the message across. So, I believe a part of it was that ya'll pushed us to think about it and there wasn't really anything really in this space and you'd listen around that wasn't just ... Not that there not some good information out there.

There's some guys. We trying to do it a little different.

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

Its just we are trying to ... we're not trying to just hand this big chunk of stuff; trying to break it into pieces and have some fun talking about it and communicating with the folks.

Fred Radunzel:

Kinda get it to where people can consume it.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

If that's where they consume information best and we have a delivery method to get it to them in that way then its good for everybody.

Dave White:

Because we kind of were ... from a consulting stand point, we see the products. We see how they have been used in other places. So, it helps us to go "there's a lot of similar situations to where you're doing this and doin' that, that will work here."

We figured it out. So, sharing those little pieces of knowledge, that some people might call tribal to this group of people is, we've taken it in and given it to another tribe.

Matt Johnson:

Now we're sharing fire.

Yeah, so it's ... I love this idea of sharing content in a way that is digestible by different people. 'Cause people like to learn in different ways, right? Some people are audible learners, some people are visual learners, and the fact that you're doing a podcast means that you're reaching an entirely different group of people who may never actually come and read a blog article or whatever, but they'll come and they'll listen religiously to your podcast. You know, they'll wait for that next feed to come out.

But what I'm curious about it this idea of the everyday man's safety manager. So like, I think when we typically think about safety managers, safe and healthy professionals. Safe and health. Safety and health professionals, excuse me. We think of like, this super nerdy, well educated, straight out of college with his PHD, kind of this engineer kind of guy. But that's not always the case, is it?

Fred Radunzel:

Most of the time it's not the case.

Dave White:

Most of the time it's not. You just have to look back to the ... if you look back at the calendar, we were in the seventies before we even really identified as the United States of ... We need to have some standards here.

Matt Johnson:

We need safety professionals.

Dave White:

So. No, we just start with standards. We don't even have professionals.

Matt Johnson:

Oh, right.

Dave White:

So then, as we know then, is once there's a standard, it takes a while to figure out how to staff professionals help manage the situation. So, realistically, you didn't have academia for it until after that. Then you have to have the people go through academia as Fred mentioned. Just because you've read a standard. That's great, but unfortunately safety is not practiced like law is. It's where the rubber meets the road. So, just because it, you know ...

Fall arresting forces need to be under 1800 lbs for ocean, 1900 lbs for [inaudible 00:04:17], well what the hell does that mean? You know, you really got sit there and figure out what a personal fall arrest system is. There's an example there, is taking that book knowledge and breaking it down into pieces that you understand.

And then, to the common man, is you have to divide that by a couple and get it in big pieces. Like: We're trying not to put enough force on your torso that it hurts you.

Matt Johnson:

Right.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

They can get that, but we had to sit there and go from a standard to understanding the physics of the standard to break it into pieces that then we can serve somebody and then have an understanding of what ...

Fred Radunzel:

And then they can serve it to their people.

Dave White:

Correct.

Matt Johnson:

Now I like the idea, because a lot of these, a lot of your listeners, and the persona really that you create content for is this guy who, maybe he's been a faithful employee. He always shows up, he does what he's told. He is a great worker, and then one day out of the blue, his boss comes to him and says ...

Dave White:

You know a lot about this.

Matt Johnson:

Hey, you're the new safety manager, right, at the facility, or whatever. And ...

Dave White:

They send him to an OHSA, 10 or 30 hour class. And they're like, there you go. We got you trained up. Go down there and make sure that nobody gets hurt.

Matt Johnson:

Right.

Dave White:

Thank you.

Matt Johnson:

And there's not a whole lot there for him, right?

Renia Carsillo:

No pressure.

Fred Radunzel:

Here's some cash. A little bit of extra cash in your check.

Dave White:

Yep. And they really, they're doing something right by putting somebody in there, as long as they're obviously getting the leeway to manage safety. Not just to fill out an org chart to where you have to have that one branch off there, to look like a legitimate tree.

Matt Johnson:

Gratuitous safety manager.

Dave White:

There's a lot of people out there that are that person. And they're usually very frustrated in their job, 'cause they can't really do anything. But, you know, all those people in the middle, unfortunately are kind of forgotten about.

Matt Johnson:

Yeah. I like the idea of just talking simple. Like we're not talking to ... And I certainly wouldn't imply that your listeners are uneducated, it's just that they're not going to digest the textbook information. They want somebody to talk to them as if they were coaching them on the job site: here's the situation that you need to look out for, here's the type of equipment you need to understand is going to help you with that situation. And just really rubber meets road practicality. And that's where I think you guys have offered a lot of value with the podcast.

Dave White:

The world still struggles with the word ignorant. Ignorant is not a bad thing.

Matt Johnson:

It just means I don't know.

Fred Radunzel:

I don't know.

Dave White:

So helping people to know, or make sure that they're aware that, hey, this is an issue. Read up. Or let us help you with that. It's huge stuff.

Fred Radunzel:

I think the podcast is, like the podcast format, is good for having somebody be able to be in on the experience. Like when you're listening to a podcast and how we try to frame it is like we're having a conversation, and we're just BS-ing with each other. And so, I think when someone listens to that, hopefully they can see that they're a part of that conversation, and so maybe absorb that information a little bit differently than if you read it off of a standard list or whatever.

Dave White:

Yeah, it's not magic pixie dust that we sprinkle over things and all of a sudden there's no accidents. It should start, hopefully, that it kind of goes, "Well, I didn't know that."

Maybe they learn something that, you know, it's kind of meant to be, how to say, a retraining a bit. 'Cause we all know we can do things perfect in our minds every day, and over time we develop bad habits. So, it can center you, or kind of start you over. Or it's the person that is ignorant, that it sparks the, "I didn't know that you had to ... I didn't know that was even an issue."

'Cause again, we don't know what we don't know.

Matt Johnson:

Right.

Renia Carsillo:

It makes me think of that Einstein quote. "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

It takes a lot of deep understand and knowledge to be able to take a complicated thing, like a fall protection system or something like that, and simplify it to the point where pretty much anybody can understand it. It's not an easy thing necessarily to do.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. I feel like that's the first time you've ever inspired an Einstein quote.

Dave White:

Probably.

Fred Radunzel:

Gotta be, right?

Dave White:

Yeah.

Renia Carsillo:

Well, I ...

Dave White:

See, it's working.

Renia Carsillo:

I was impressed. The first episode ...

Matt Johnson:

When Renia thinks of you, she thinks Einstein.

Dave White:

Yeah, hey, I'm telling you, that's something else.

Fred Radunzel:

Bushy mustaches. They're ... anyways.

Renia Carsillo:

It's the bushy mustache thing, alright. Yeah ...

Matt Johnson:

Odd dude.

Renia Carsillo:

Okay, I've totally lost it.

Matt Johnson:

Well, I knew this would get off the rails.

Renia Carsillo:

Thanks, Fred.

Fred Radunzel:

It doesn't take long enough.

Renia Carsillo:

Dammit, Fred.

Fred Radunzel:

We were really adulting here there for a while.

Dave White:

Yeah, you're an algorithm update. That's what I keep thinking.

Fred Radunzel:

Ah.

Dave White:

Adulting? I'm good at that.

Fred Radunzel:

No?

Renia Carsillo:

No.

So, one of the reasons that I really like the podcast is because I think it helps not just the safety manager understand it, but the employee that has to wear it understand it. Or somebody watching a company, seeing if they're doing the right things. Like, I remember the first episode of the podcast, I don't mean that like a regulator, I mean an average person. And when you were talking about leading edge, and then you went down the rabbit hole, started talking about roofers, and like, your bright house guy out installing your cable and stuff.

And I was like, "Oh, I finally get this."

And now I find myself when I've got contractors in my house right doing some remodeling, and I'm watching them. Are they being safe? Are they doing ... And so, it's not ... It makes your safety manager aware, but it also makes everyone aware, and it contributes to making everybody safer.

Fred Radunzel:

Awareness. That's the number one reason to do it is to bring awareness.

Dave White:

Yup. Because, actually, if you look at when people get hurt, we can put a young employee in a job that's very high risk, and he'll be safe for a while. Even if there's cataclysmic crap going on around him that can hurt him, but each day he becomes another level complacent. Another level complacent, to the point that all of a sudden he's like, "Ah, yeah, I should put my harness on to do that, but, man, I got this. Whoops."

And we have this [crosstalk 00:10:56]

Matt Johnson:

That's what happens.

Dave White:

So, bringing that back to the awareness, is, here's, when I do fall protection training, a lot of times you throw a slide on there that's got a stack of bodies. And you just talk about the stack of bodies, and who they were.

And when they ... well, he had two kids, and you make it personal, and then people, hopefully, the next time they put themselves in harm’s way, they at least kind of blow the whistle, get a timeout, and, stop and do the right thing.

Matt Johnson:

I like the idea of, and we talked about this before, and I mentioned to you this already. But this idea of safety at scale. I just wanted to come back to that. The idea that, because, and Renia kind of mentioned it, but it's this idea that when we are talking about awareness level safety issues, often times we're reaching a safety manager or safety director who is in charge of dozens, hundreds, thousands of employees.

And making sure that he communicates to them correctly, and driving awareness home at that level, and ultimately even farther down the road. Like the food chain, if you will, of safety, is like those people, when they're hearing about safety at work, they're going home, and they're implementing safety in their homes with their families. And they're thinking about safety like, "Johnny, don't do that. Daddy has to go to work every day and I wear a harness, so please don't walk on the top of that tree like that."

So it's like this idea of safety reaching the masses. And it's something I'm passionate about, but I know that, that's something that drives you, right Dave?

Dave White:

Mmm-hmm. I mean that in that everybody, even Steven Martin the Jerk had to have a special purpose, our special purpose just tends to be making people understand workplace safety. That, you know. Why do we work?

Everybody ... I don't know ... Few people ... Historically, yeah. A lot of people, you know, you've got to live to work, work to live, kind of process. So why do most people work to obtain wages so that they can do something other than be at work? I mean, that's kind of the goal of everybody.

It's not to sit there. Yeah, I mean. Work can be fun, and it can be a lot of your purpose, but hopefully you have some level of a hobby. Maybe you like to buy CDs at the WalMart, and kind of listen to them.

Renia Carsillo:

What the hell is a CD, Dave?

Matt Johnson:

And he looked at Fred when he said it.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, that was weird. No.

Dave White:

No, I just like to throw the [crosstalk 00:13:39] out there.

Matt Johnson:

Everybody ...

Dave White:

I'm just saying everybody's got different things that they're going after, is why they work to ... Whether it's some people work so they can be with their grandkids, or provide something for their grandkids.

Or their kids, or whoever or whatever.

Matt Johnson:

And they need to keep working.

Dave White:

And that only happens if you maintain a status above the soil line. Because once you're below the soil line, unless you have, you're like Elvis or somebody like that, that's got earning potential well into the grave.

Matt Johnson:

Or Tupac.

Dave White:

Or Tupac, or whoever it is. Mohammed Ali. Not everybody has that under the dirt line kind of earnings potential. And everything takes money.

Matt Johnson:

That's right. So you gotta stay alive, A. And B: you gotta keep working. You can't get hurt on the job.

Fred Radunzel:

Correct.

Matt Johnson:

And then, be at work.

Dave White:

Well, think about the people that are struggling out there, and complicated by a workplace incident that then causes more money problems. Or maybe it's, I don't know. I got burned really bad on my face, and dealing with just the mental anguish that, I mean ...

People that go through some of these accidents, not only dollars and cents, but its something the best at talking about is feelings and everything, but there's a lot of that in there. That you've gotta pay attention to.

Renia Carsillo:

Well, don't you think that sometimes ... I wonder how you deal with this on a daily basis. Since this is going on your podcast, I'm gonna ask this sideways. Question: Occasionally, when I talk to people I'm like, "Yeah, I got it. Dollars and cents. But how 'bout the just giving a shit about people?"

Dave White:

Yeah.

Renia Carsillo:

Do you, like, how do you deal with that? When you're ...

Dave White:

Well, you have to understand that in our audience, not everybody has that. Some people it is about dollars and cents, and I think that you can get to the same answer two different ways. Is one is just, I really care about people, and the other one's, I really care about the business case, or I care about the money.

Because, going back to that study that says, when we invest money in safety we have an outcome of profitability by a return on that asset. Well, the greedy SOB can get to the same answer as the guy that is people ....

Fred Radunzel:

People are worth money.

Dave White:

Those. Yes. So, there's a dual street that you can get to the same answer. And it doesn't really matter, which one you go after.

Matt Johnson:

It doesn't matter what they're motivated by.

Dave White:

No. They can be motivated by tree hugging hippie stuff, or money. It doesn't matter, which one that is, but the thing that I'm trying to say is that we can get there: two different streets. Two different mentalities that have the same outcome of that employee returning home, compensated and able-bodied to provide and be there for his family, or her family.

Matt Johnson:

Right on.

Renia Carsillo:

Fred, do you have a dumb ass of the week that you'd like to talk about before we go?

Dave White:

It's the dumb ass of the week.

Fred Radunzel:

There's a lot of preparing that has to go into that. I'm thinking about giving it to you for asking me that question right now. 'Cause it's kind of a silly game.

Matt Johnson:

There was this podcast host ...

Renia Carsillo:

We know you are the dumb ass of the week.

Matt Johnson:

Let me tell you about this podcast host.

Fred Radunzel:

This podcast host asked me this dumb ass question about the dumb ass of the week when I wasn't prepared for it, but ...

No, I mean, there's two million of them that you can come up with. How 'bout Benny? Benny's on the job today, and Benny didn't wear his steel-toed shoes, 'cause he didn't think that there was gonna be anything that he was going to be working that could possibly impact his feet. So he put on his old Reebok pumps, and Benny pumped 'em, and he went to work. He was ready for a hoops game, but he wasn't ready for his forklift to drop on his toes.

And so ...

Dave White:

They're pretty heavy.

Fred Radunzel:

Benny goes home with his little piggies smashed up. So, Dave, what should little Benny have done different?

Dave White:

He should have had his steel-toed shoes on, because unfortunately, when you kind of look at compromising the toes and the metatarsal bones, you're not gonna walk real well. If you cut the front of somebody's foot off, you're gonna have to have a prosthetic that kind of keeps you standing up.

Fred Radunzel:

Just that pinkie toe will really help you with you ... your balance will not be good.

Dave White:

No, not at all. Not to mention painful.

Fred Radunzel:

So.

Dave White:

Not to mention, next time you try to go get in the pool, everybody's gonna stare at your feet.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. Ol' 'Four Toe' Benny.

Matt Johnson:

Feet are already kind of gross, but his feet are gonna be hideous, mutated.

Dave White:

It's gonna have like, a duck flange on the front of it where it's pancaked out.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, I could pretty much be a foot model, but I got a feeling your guys' piggies have been put to work throughout your lives. So.

Dave White:

Well, mine are held down with tape ...

Fred Radunzel:

Anyways, that ...

Matt Johnson:

What are you trying to say, Fred?

Fred Radunzel:

That's why Benny is the dumb ass of the week.

Renia Carsillo:

See, that was a great on the fly dumb ass of the week.

Matt Johnson:

Nice dumb ass.

Renia Carsillo:

Congratulations, you get the prize.

Fred Radunzel:

No problem.

Matt Johnson:

Beautiful dumb ass.

Renia Carsillo:

Nice.

Fred Radunzel:

Alright, are we wrapped up here, guys?

Renia Carsillo:

I think we kicked this podcast's ass.

Matt Johnson:

I think we did, I think we earned ourselves some lunch.

Renia Carsillo:

Mmm. What do you think guys?

Fred Radunzel:

I've just been concentrating on having to take a leak here. Real quick.

Outro:

Thanks for listening in to Dave and Bacon's Safety Tales. Brought to you by Quad City Safety. Send us your questions on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitter, at Quad City Safety. Hashtag Safety Tales. Or email them to Fred at quadcitysafety.com, he's the guy keeping this mess of a show in line.

And if you like the show, please rate and review us on iTunes, it's a kick ass way to show that you care about safety.