Choosing a Better Shoe for the Industrial Athlete: Safety Tales Podcast Episode 5

Intro Announcer:

Dave, and Bacon's Safety Tales. The only industrial safety podcast, that brings you common sense advice, on job site safety, standards, regulations, and industry best practices, without putting you to sleep.

Fred:

Welcome to Dave, and Bacon's Safety Tales. 

Fred:

Once again, this is Fred, with Quad City Safety. I'm here with my buddy Dave, also with Quad City Safety. Today, the topic of the day, is we're about to dig into the most basic of safety needs, foot protection.

Dave:

I wouldn't call it the most basic.

Fred:

Some might say, it's not actually that basic. There's a lot more to know than if you just need a steel toe or a metatarsal, right?

Dave:

Yeah, I guess most of the world wants to walk into Walmart, bust in there, and pay about $29.95, exit with a box that says steel toe. Wile that's a little bit of it, there's a lot more that goes into it.

Fred:

And they got a Bud Light can protecting their little piggies.

Dave:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fred:

So, all right, start it off-

Dave:

You know, actually, without a big toe, you can't actually stand up?

Fred:

I feel like I could.

Dave:

Try it.

Fred:

You got a knife in here? Let's hack off my big toe.

Dave:

Well, I mean, I wish I did, because it would be worth watching. No, actually, when you talk about your big toe, it's a big part of your whole balancing agent. You cut it off, and literally, you're gonna do a freaking header.

Fred:

I know, the pinky toe, it's tough to walk, when you're missing the pinky toe. So I imagine, the big toe's a lot more balance that you probably push off that.

Dave:

And it helps you realistically, count past 10.

Fred:

Fair enough, I got the fingers for that though.

Dave:

Yeah, but I mean, sometimes-

Fred:

If I need to get to 20-

Dave:

Somebody's gonna have to do some bigger math than 10.

Fred:

Fair enough. So you wanna get into your story for the day?

Dave:

Yeah, so, this one goes way back. I spent a lot of my younger years in scouting. I'm an Eagle Scout, and Boy Scouts of America. We used to do a lot of weekend trips. These weekend trips could be anything, from going to see Civil War battle fields, to whatever. One of the big ones, every year, was we would go to Red River Gorge, and Red River Gorge is in eastern Kentucky. Obviously, there was a Red River, and there was a big gorge.

Fred:

It's a good name.

Dave:

Yeah. I mean, it's classic. I mean, I'm from Fern Creek, so when you look at places in Kentucky, often time it's literally like Fern Creek, so there must have been fern and a creek, and somebody put that together. Red River Gorge, you know, red river, and gorge. There's combinations like that, that are ultra simplistic, but I guess, Iowa has them too. Lone Tree, and stupid stuff like that. Blue Grass, well Blue Grass doesn't really, it's just a thing. You're in a lot of blue ... never mind.

Fred:

I like grass.

Dave:

And, so we're popping through Red River Gorge, and the big thing that we would always talk about, before we would go on this hike every year, was our footwear. The reason that footwear was a big deal, was we're stomping through creeks, we're stomping on trails, and these are pretty rugged trails, so you needed to be in a hiking boot. A hiking boot, back then, is not really like a hiking boot now. You're not in some new aged, North Face looking, futuristic boot.

We we're in big old clod hoppers. With the red laces, and looked like you should wear them, and yodel in your lederhosen, kind of stuff. The big thing that they would always say is, you need to make sure to break in your boots. Needless to say, every year we would have this kid, and every year it was different, but the one that I'm gonna go to, is this kid that we labeled drill bit. Drill bit was, he was very hyper active. He was in need of medication, before they really had medication for kids like this. He was, let's say, talked all the time, ran in very tight circles, and that's why we called him drill bit.

Fred:

Like a spaz.

Dave:

Yeah.

Fred:

Some would say.

Dave:

He was ultra spaz. It was literally, clinical ADHD before we had a ... basically, at that point in time, your parents just beat the shit out of you, and put you in the closet, and the teacher hated you. From there, you would probably go to college, and make a billion dollars, and be an overnight success. Now we just kind of drug everybody.

Fred:

Yeah.

Dave:

So, with that said, drill bit gets his big clod hoppers, pulls them out of the box, puts them on, doesn't tell us that he hasn't broke his boots in. Which is kind of a big deal, because as we know, at that point in time, you didn't break shoes in right when you wore them. It took a little bit, because you had an all leather upper, kind of needed to get the flex points in there, and wear them for a while.

We'd get back into Red River Gorge, and we're a couple miles back in. Just to reiterate, we're in a gorge, that has red river flowing through it, so we're in BFE, in the middle of nowhere. Again, past three miles, I wanna say it was like 11, or 12 miles in, it was probably past that. Long, and short of it, is drill bit all of a sudden has issues. Red light comes on, and he's crying, and we're trying to figure out what's wrong with drill bit. Well, the problem with drill bit, was he hadn't broke his boots in, and now he had a blister, because kind of going through the creek, and with kind of, the fact that the boots weren't broke in, he had rubbed a blister on his foot.

So, with the blister on his foot, then becomes an issue of, what do we do with old drill bit? That point and time, he really can't carry his pack, so we have to figure out where to put his pack.

Fred:

Because of a blister on his foot?

Dave:

Yeah, because, at that point in time, we pretty much had to take his shoe off, and go into the whole first aid. Any good Scout knows, you get the needle out, you heat the needle up, you pop the blister, you get-

Fred:

Oh, he had a serious blister.

Dave:

We literally had to do, at that point in time, it was open heart surgery on a foot, for kids. We're trained in first aid, and anybody that was a Boy Scout, remembers that Boy Scout manual. About 500 pages of little pictograms on how to do basic stuff, but that was one of them. We we're gonna get in there, and pop that blister on his foot.

So, we popped the blister on his foot, get him to where he can walk again, and of course, somebody's got to carry his pack. We get there, and we get back out, but the whole thing that I'm trying to go with, is there's multiple things, multiple moving perks in the story. First, is he didn't have the right foot wear. He didn't plan for the right foot wear, meaning, yeah he kind of had the right thing on, but he hadn't broke it in. The second part is, because he didn't do what he was supposed to, it caused other people pain. The other people that were caused pain, were people that had a pack this little bastards back pack in, and out of the hills of eastern Kentucky, for what was supposed to be fun.

When you got 35 pounds on your back, and all of a sudden, you got somebody else's, that's not fun for somebody else. Because of him being kind of an idiot, or whatever, everybody else had to suffer, also.

Fred:

Okay. So, is it still common that you have to break in a pair of boots?

Dave:

No, I mean, the materials have changed a lot. Again, we're talking, at that point in time, an all leather upper, but it's just like still, when you get a pair of shoes, you should really wear them for a little while, because flex points in all shoes are a lot different. Meaning, how to say, you should actually get measured for a pair of shoes, because the flex points are how shoes are designed, they're meant to flex in certain points. If you get a pair of shoes that's not right for you, those flex points might hit you in the wrong place, and then agitate you.

It's not uncommon for us, to have shoes that we tell people, "Here's a pair of shoes, wear them around on the carpet for a couple days, make sure that they fit correctly." That kind of plays into the story that we just went through.

Fred:

'Cause as a kid, I remember I played basketball a lot, I wasn't a real dork like you, in Eagle Scouts. I was the, pretty much, stud, 10 year old athlete, you know?

Dave:

Yeah.

Fred:

Good person.

Dave:

Double zero.

Fred:

Yeah. I was 31, I wore 31, because I liked Reggie Miller.

Dave:

Oh, okay. Reggie Miller used to scratch everybody, he was not a very nice person.

Fred:

Oh he had all kinds of things. That's what they developed the rules for, like on a three pointer, he'd kick his feet, when he shot a three pointer. Guys would run into his legs. So they developed the Reggie Miller rule, so now you can't kick your feet, it's a foul on the offensive player.

Dave:

He was not a very classy guy.

Fred:

But, anyways, so my favorite player.

Dave:

Pacers were pretty good though.

Fred:

Yeah, he had a good run though. It was my favorite player.

Dave:

What was the most he ever score in a game? He had a pretty good game. He had some pretty good games.

Fred:

He had the game that was Reggie Miller's, like, stud game, was that one versus the Knicks, when he scored like nine points in like eight seconds, or something like that.

Dave:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fred:

And they ended up winning the game, but the reason that I brought that up was, 'cause basketball shoes, when I was a kid, which now we're talking, shit, almost 25 years ago-

Dave:

Since you being 10, you're not that young.

Fred:

25 years, yeah I was 10 years old. I'm 34, so 10 years ago?

Dave:

Oh, I thought when you were 10 years old. That's closer to ...

Fred:

So, yeah. I said 25 years ago.

Dave:

Oh okay. Good enough.

Fred:

So, 25 years ago, even like a pair of basketball shoes, you'd get blisters on your feet, for the first two weeks that you wore them. You'd be wearing two pair of socks, or whatever. Now, I know that, there's basketball players in the NBA, they wear a new pair shoes every game. Has the technology changed in footwear?

Dave:

Yeah. The out soles, as well as the uppers, are lot different. They're not as stiff.

Fred:

Ready to wear, day one? As opposed to-

Dave:

A lot of the materials, yeah. They're walk out ready. Most of the time, they're ready for you.

Fred:

Yeah, 'cause my dainty little feet, I know I put on a pair of boots that we stock, I just went for a facility walk, where I was in them for two hours, and I could barely walk at the end of the day. The boots did not fit my feet right.

Dave:

Part of it, there is a fit factor to protective footwear, it's a very personal item. You need to make sure that, when you look at sizing on shoes, that's all over the board. If you look at toe caps, and widths, and what the out sole's made of, and what the mid sole is made out of. Does it have a good insole? There's a lot that actually goes into the comfort features in shoes, as well as, how well they respond.

Fred:

Okay. One thing that I think we don't really think about, like, with a contractor, even really, someone that works in more of an industrial site, would be that technically they're athletes.

Dave:

Well, yeah they're industrial athletes. I mean, they're people that are highly skilled. When you sit there and you look at an athlete, per se, is somebody that's highly skilled, and highly sought after, to do those very specific things. If we have our right fielder, in the Major League Baseball, versus, somebody that is a wide receiver in football, versus, a boxer. Those are all athletes, that have very different jobs, that require different skill sets, and different materials for them to do their job.

Fred:

Okay. So, if we're really looking to, obviously, avoid the major hazards of having your feet crushed, or punctured, or electrocuted, what do you think are the things we gotta look out for?

Dave:

Well, again, it starts back with, we have to look forward to what the environment that we're in. So, to really take a look at foot wear, we need to really address what's going on in the hazard. Hazards can obviously, that start with, that everybody thinks about, is crushing those little piggies. That's your steel toe. The second part of it, traditionally, is gonna be the metacarpal bones, which are the bones, in the top of your foot that actually, they break, not real, real easy, but they break, and they take a while to heal.

So, you'll have a metatarsal guard, that goes over the top, and traditionally, that was always that big steel plate that kind of rested over the top of the foot. With technology that's changed quite a bit, to where there's x30s. There's different materials that they make that out of. They're more flexible, and pliable, and wear well.

Well, that's only the first part of it, is we have ESD, and EH. Our we an electrician, that's working around live electricity? We don't wanna ground ourselves out, so the first thing we think about, from an electrician's standpoint, is we want that boot to be EH rated, which basically means, that we're not going to allow current to go to ground.

Fred:

It's an electrical hazard?

Dave:

Yeah. EH is. Versus an ESD, wants everything to go to ground. An ESD is electrostatic dissipative, so it takes any electric, and puts it to ground. So, where that might come in ... 'cause everybody that can remember, well I'll go back to my church days, as we put those leather shoes on, and we scuff them across the carpet, and get that charge, and then we'd walk up to somebody, and pow.

Fred:

Right.

Dave:

Well, that was an EH situation, where we were retaining the charge. Well, an ESD is in a situations where, let's say, we're in a highly explosive environment, whether it's vapors, or particulate matter that can explode, with just a spark. We don't wanna make it ... we actually want any charge that we would retain in our body, to go to ground. An ESD shoe, is meant to make that charge to go to ground. Let's say we're in a construction environment, where there can be nails, and boards that we can step on. We may want a puncture resistant insole, mid sole. There could be situations where we are in, whether it's regular oils, food oils, maybe wet concrete, where we want slip resistance to be incorporated into that shoe.

There's a lot of technology, that goes into making sure that all these little things are met, even to, let's say we're in, and around chemicals, and we don't want that to degrade the sole, there's those, there is, are we around temperature? Meaning, are we stepping on something that's hot, that could destroy the outsole? Are we in cold environments, where we might need an insulated boot? Maybe, we're going through a metal detector, for security reasons, to where we might need something that won't set a metal detector off, to where, we go to a polymer type toe.

Fred:

So, there's different types of boots, for all these different types of hazards?

Dave:

You just keep ... there's, how to say, there's a recipe for everybody, that gets that something to success. Even to, let's say you're working in the foundry, and you have the potential for molten metal, to enter the shoe. You wanna be able to get that shoe off, so they make a foundry boot, it's called a kick off shoe, so that if something gets in the shoe, you're able to literally kick it off.

Fred:

Get it off your foot. Okay. How about for like foot problems, or I guess, if you're talking, like a running shoe, maybe you under pronate, or over pronate. Is there things specially for these problems?

Dave:

Typically, that's gonna be add on's to the shoe, or something that you put into it, but over and under pronation, is like, how to say, you'll see people ... you usually look at people's shoes, and look at the bottom, and look at the wear patter. The people will either, if the have flat feet, that foot will tilt in, where the heel of the shoe a certain way, or over, and under pronation, again, is just how that foot moves around. Are you walking more towards your outside of your heel, or more towards your inside of the heel?

The perfect stride, is going to be straight down the middle. The problem, is people won't change insoles, or wear a heel cup, or something that keeps them kind of centered. Again, over time, they'll wear the shoe down, and the problem with that, is that we're all kind of stacked as a set of Lincoln Logs, a certain way. People complain about back pain, and a lot of times, it their shoes. That's why old mall walkers, they got it down. They get a new set of-

Fred:

Keds.

Dave:

Yeah, Keds, or New Balance, and they're stroking down on me, and they're Fitbit's registering like 60,000 steps, as they lap the Orange Julius for like the fifth time. They don't have any back problems, they're happy. Well, they're taking care of their feet, and they're doing a good job of making sure that they got a good base there.

Fred:

Yeah, I think that's something that you probably need to look at. That's why these people are athletes, because you would think about those types of hazards as, for like a running shoe. Be like, "Oh, I'm getting knee pain, or I'm getting shin splints, so what can my shoes be doing to attribute that?"

Dave:

Yeah.

Fred:

I assume, that's the same thing as we look at these industrial environments.

Dave:

Absolutely. Look at a soccer shoe, versus, a golf shoes, versus a basketball, versus, football. They're all designed to be for a person to do a job, in a different environment.

Fred:

Yeah, but most people probably don't think about their work boots, like that's kind of, a one size fits all, type of thing, you would think.

Dave:

Well, all jobs are not the same.

Fred:

Right.

Dave:

I mean, are you in-

Fred:

All feet are not the same.

Dave:

... indoor, or outdoor? What are you doing? Are you an electrician, or you a carpenter? Are you working off of your knees, what's the hazard? Do you only need to protect the toe, or do you have the potential to drop objects, where you may need that metatarsal coverage? There's a lot more that goes into it.

Fred:

How about, can you talk a little bit on, that's my favorite thing ... I don't know if you watch press conferences, ever after a big sporting event, and the reporters, the coaches, and stuff like that, will always get annoyed. Like Popovich, for the Spurs, he's the one that's the best, when they ask him a stupid question, he will give them a stupid, one word answer. So, a lot of times, reporters will say, "Hey, Greg, can you talk about Tim Duncan's performance? What did you really think about how he played?" And he's like, "Why don't you ask me a question, instead of say, talk about? If you have a question for me, ask me that question instead of that."

So, anyways, I was gonna say-

Dave:

So, you don't want me to just general-

Fred:

I was gonna say, "Talk about ... hey Dave, can you please talk about, what the difference is between an oil resistant boot, versus a slip resistant?"

Dave:

Yeah, how to say, you'll see a lot of boots that-

Fred:

'Cause I legitimately, barely know what the difference is.

Dave:

If you look at them, sometimes it'll say, oil resistant, and people immediately go, "Well, it's a slip resistant shoe." That's not the case. Oil resistant means, that it is resistant to oil. You put your standard gym shoe into oil, and it will break it down, and you will walk right out of the sole, over time. Versus, slip resistance, is testing the coefficient of friction, so imagine, the sand paper effect against something. How it stops against something, meaning, again, compensation efficient of friction.

If I have a surface that just slides, and just skis across something, like a, let's go with just a snow ski, there's very little coefficient of friction.

Fred:

And that's a glide?

Dave:

I'm meant to just go. Versus, maybe something that's got a heavy lug sole, and mud, that kind of at least, catches up a little bit. All things are not equal, because ...

Fred:

Tires are probably a good example-

Dave:

Oil's gonna be different than water, water on what kind of surface? Is it a dry surface? Because a dry surface it's very easy to get a high coefficient friction on anything, because the coefficient of friction, is mass on top of something, and then, mass going forward with you. So if you have a dry surface, nothing, but if you put ice under that same surface, there's gonna be zero coefficient of friction.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

So, unless you put like a snow cleat, or a device that's meant to give you traction in ice, that will stop you.

Fred:

Okay, how about, I guess we talk insoles?

Dave:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Fred:

The difference in, I guess different types on insoles, and what those add to your boots, or shoes.

Dave:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)- insoles can do a lot of different things. Let's say, maybe, I'm a diabetic.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

Antimicrobial, so I don't need-

Fred:

They can be made out of chocolate, so if you need it, in that moment, you can just eat your insole.

Dave:

You possible could.

Fred:

Pop your insole, okay, that's a good idea.

Dave:

That would be a little weird, 'cause anything my feet have touched, I'm typically not gonna wanna eat.

Fred:

Well, you need a good sock. Obviously, there has to be a good sock.

Dave:

For past, you know what I do with socks, from other episodes. No, probably not the best idea, to try to eat there. Antimicrobial, as it relates to diabetics, is we don't want any of the little, how to say, not necessarily virus, but bacterial stuff, we would like that to die in there. You could have insoles that are designed to do that. You can have insoles that have built in arch supports, that when we talk about pronation, will help make sure that we're lining ourselves up correctly.

We have insoles that are designed now, that have puncture resistance built into them. So there's kind of a metal plate, or metal mid sole in there, to keep a nail from passing through the outsole into the foot.

Fred:

So, is that to add to a non puncture resistant boot? You put in a puncture resistant insole?

Dave:

Yeah they actually have insoles now that meet the standard that are, kind of, an add on.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

Cal/OSHA was the first, really to come out with the standard, that talk about puncture resistant, or having a puncture resistant shoe, in a construction stand point. They really satisfied that, with an insole that has a piece of metal in it.

Fred:

Okay. So, I would assume, a major reason to have an insole, though, would be for, I know I've seen like anti fatigue materials, just like the matting. I think, the cushion is gonna be the majority of the reason people would buy an insole, or not really?

Dave:

Two fold. Yes, for comfort, obviously, if we're on our feet for multiple hours a day, comfort is a big factor. How to say? You're seeing more companies come out with, again, an insole that, you know, Timberland has a good one, multiple manufacturers have them, to where you get that cushiony, good feel, to where it's not just like you're standing on a ... warehouse people have probably some of the worst jobs, as it relates to comfort in shoes, because they're on a hard surface, that doesn't give at all, all day, and they're walking on it.

So, that, in itself, is a big deal to them, from a comfort standpoint, but the other standpoint, again, is when we're in a pair of shoes, none of us are lined up exactly correct. So, whether we over, or under pronate, on that pair of shoes, over time, we start wearing it. Usually the first place that we start making that change in the shoe, is in the insole, in the mid sole. So, by continuously changing the insole, we can help keep a flat base in there, instead of wearing it, whether it's under, or over pronated.

Fred:

Okay. So, we kind of went over a lot of the hazards. Kind of telling me what your safety shoes protecting you from, difference between EH, and ESD, did that. Can we talk a little bit more about some of the materials, they say space age materials, or whatever. [crosstalk 00:27:44]

Dave:

The $5 word that everybody's going after now, is nanotechnologies. Nanotechnologies can be, they're not necessarily space age, may not be the biggest thing to say, but when we look at toe caps, toe caps can be traditionally, they were always steel. We have titanium, so we have lighter weight metals. Anytime we can take weight out of a shoe, it's a nicer wear.

It can be a polymer plastics, it can be, like there's this X3O, so, imagine a material that, when you hit it, it actually becomes hard, and absorbs the energy, to change state. So, it's a phase change material. Things like Gore-Tex, so, when we want a bootie that is dry, but breathes, so it's like [pavoc 00:28:49] for your feet.

Fred:

Gore-Tex is a warmth thing, isn't it? How Gore-Tex comes into my head, is there's an episode of Seinfeld, that they have George in a Gore-Tex coat, and it's like, you seen a lot of those puffy coats, this was like mid '90s, before that technology had really advanced, so he just looked like the marshmallow man, in this big Gore-Tex coat.

Dave:

No, it's not really related to heat, it's related to the moisture going, how to say, breathe out, but no water in.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

It's a waterproof, yet, semi breathable-

Fred:

Material?

Dave:

... material.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

A heat related one, would be Thinsulate.

Fred:

Yeah.

Dave:

And a lot of people have Thinsulate, and Thinsulate in shoes, is kind of, it's a catch 22, 'cause-

Fred:

That's one you always like to harp on, about that you're not a big fan.

Dave:

I'm not a big fan, because people will buy a waterproof boot, with 1,000 grams of Thinsulate in it, and then they'll get up, and stomp around, and they'll go, "Well, my feet are wet, so thee boots are leaking." No, your feet are just sweating.

Fred:

'Cause you're wearing wool socks inside of your Thinsulate coated work boot.

Dave:

Yeah, and moving around.

Fred:

Yeah.

Dave:

Everybody's feet actually do sweat. That's the reason that people's feet stink. Causal connection there.

Fred:

You need some Odor Eaters, when you're done. How about tests? I'm assuming all these work boots, are gonna have to pass a sort of test, like impact test, compression test?

Dave:

Yeah, any safety shoe, if you peel that tongue open, and look at it, it will be rated, and it will tell you, right there, whether it's rated for, if it has a steel toe in it, or whether it has a metatarsal in it. It will say, whether it has puncture resistant in it. It will say, whether it's EH, so again, a lot of it's, to get to know the product, sometimes, you have to just literally ... the tongue for us, has always said, Nike 9.0, so I knew that I needed Nike's, and I needed them in a size nine. There's a little bit more information on that tag, as it relates to safety, than people realize a lot of times.

Fred:

Fair enough. All right, I think that about covers things for boots, for the moment. So, let's move on to this weeks dumb ass of the week.

Intro Announcer:

It's the dumb ass of the week.

Fred:

Fictional name here, let's call this guy Gus. Now, Gus-

Dave:

Fat Gus, regular Gus?

Fred:

I'm envisioning more of like a Swedish Gus.

Dave:

A Swedish Gus.

Fred:

I don't know, he's blonde, he's got a mustache, the mustache doesn't come in very well. He's about 34 years old. He tries to grow out a mustache, and a beard, but it just doesn't work out very well for old Gus.

Dave:

Hasn't filled in very well.

Fred:

Nope. He's hoping maybe, by 40 years old, maybe that'll fill in. Gus, back in 2014, purchased an AED, for his work site, 'cause he knew that it was an important thing, he maybe, this was 2014, so he didn't hear our last episode, but I'll bet Gus is a big fan of ours. Anyways, so Gus purchased an AED, and plugged it in, and hung on his wall, and then he was good to go, 'cause he had an AED. If there ever was an emergency on site, anyone was in cardiac arrest, Gus purchased this AED, so he was covered.

Fast forward two years, and there was an accident on site, where this AED needed to be in use. Funny enough, Gus had not touched the AED, since he installed it, two years ago, and the batteries weren't working. The batteries weren't working, maybe the pads were still okay, but he didn't have it in his time of need, because Gus didn't make sure that he was checking this every so often. So, what do you think Gus should have done differently?

Dave:

A lot.

Fred:

All right.

Dave:

'Cause, again, when we talk about safety, this word of program keeps coming up. A program is not like when you walk into your middle school choir concert, and they hand you the program, and it's got how the next hour of your life is gonna go. Programs typically centered around looking forward into, here's what the problem is, here's how we're going to deal with the problem, or the hazard, as it relates to stuff. There's usually stuff in the program that goes, "Here's the stuff in the future that we need to do to make sure that everything we started off with..." because Gus, who can't really grow a beard, and is kind of facially hair challenged, will never be a member of Duck Dynasty. The fact is, is he did a lot of good stuff, but again, as you mentioned, somebody died, because for batteries, and pads. When he broke those pads out, they were as stale as saltine crackers, and usually they're gonna be pliable and sticky.

The battery, which is, say there's a lot of different technologies out there, they probably weren't nickel cadmium, or whatever the old school battery, they're probably lithium ion, or some new school, but nobody did the visual test. Most every AED that is on the market today, you walk up, and you look at it, and it has a visual inspection of, almost like a green dot, or something on it. That somebody has to casually walk up, and look at. Some of them even alarm.

It requires somebody to actually ... again, safety requires some level, of give a shit.

Fred:

Well, I think sometimes it can be, and this is in all aspects of safety, but it can be a reactive thing. Maybe we realized, oh shit, we have to have an AED on site, because this could happen, we could have someone that has a cardiac arrest, if we had this on site, we're gonna be way ahead of the game. Then, a year goes by, and nothing happens, and you kind of just forget about that program.

Dave:

Yeah, and programs, you know, we are, I'm trying to think, yeah it's 2017. So, there's a lot of technology. I'm pretty sure I can go, "Okay Google." And my phone will come up, I go, "Can you set a reminder for a specific date." Now watch-

Fred:

Your phone's doing it as we speak?

Dave:

My phone just did it, and I didn't even ... yeah. Long story short, is we have technology that can tell us, "Hey, take a look at the pads on such, and such a date." You know? Oh wow, it's that easy? Yeah, it's really that easy.

Fred:

Yeah, it's kind of like, you just have to think about your safety check, your daily safety check, your monthly safety check, your annual safety check.

Dave:

There's nothing in safety that doesn't require, how to say, there's not a magic pill that you take one time, and it's like, "Thank God the clouds-

Fred:

2014, we took care of AEDs, we're good.

Dave:

We're good forever, and ever, amen.

Fred:

Until somebody has one, and then we'll take a look at it again.

Dave:

But dammit, somebody just stroked out again.

Fred:

Yep.

Dave:

Jesus Christ.

Fred:

Gus, come on man. Isn't that the ESPN thing? Come on man.

Dave:

Come on Gus. Yeah, so Gus is the dumb ass of the week. It's okay to be the dumb ass of the week, because we all learned from the fact, that we know that how to say, we have to remind each other to come back, and circle back, and look at this stuff, because the classic example, is the construction site. When we look at a construction site, as it is today, there's a hole here, a tractor there, Bill's over here, electricians are on site. The next day, the site is completely changed. Daily evaluation of what we're doing, is kind of an important thing.

Fred:

Fair enough. All right, how about, time to comb through your email box this week.

Dave:

Oh boy, I hate email.

Fred:

Yep. So, once again, if you guys have email questions, you can reach out. I'm fred@quadcitysafety.com, you can go to Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, reach out to us through any of those social media aspects. If you guys have questions, we definitely wanna hear them, and we can address them on the next show.

Dave:

You old school guys, 563-445-2171 is our fax.

Fred:

It's our fax number. Fair enough. If you wanna mail us something with ... nevermind.

Dave:

P.O. Box 1720 Davenport, Iowa 52809.

Fred:

Attention Dave. So anyways.

Question number one, "We know that we've had some cut injuries, what cut gloves do we need?" Do you have, I don't know Dave, what do you think? Cut gloves.

Dave:

Well, I mean, when you look at cut gloves, and again, we're talking cut resistant, 'cause people usually walk up and go, "What cut proof gloves you got?"

Fred:

Happened to me yesterday.

Dave:

It's like, I don't know of such an animal, and they're like, "Well, what are these? These look like cut proof gloves."

Fred:

Yeah.

Dave:

You just said, "Cut proof."

Fred:

Yeah, that's what I had, somebody yesterday I went in, and it was like a warehousing place, they just warehouse things, and he said, he goes, "Well, we use our box cutters, and we have had some hand injuries, but none of our gloves are cut proof." Well, good thing, I don't think there's really much cut proof out there.

Dave:

'Cause I don't know of such an animal.

Fred:

Right, but go ahead.

Dave:

So, part of it, is realizing, obviously, cut is a compounded thing, that is what is the edge, and how much pressure is on the edge? Because you can have, so if I took a very dull knife, and put 20,000 pounds of pressure on it, it's gonna be nasty. It's gonna destroy a lot of stuff, versus, if I take a razor blade, with a pound of force, and come across it. It's gonna make a very nice little neat cut, that I can then sew up.

So, we gotta get out of our head, it's cut proof, and we have to get our mind wrapped around, resistance to the cut. Resistance to the cut is, first of all, understanding how much pressure are we putting on it? So, if I take my hand, and then hand somebody an ax, and have them swing an ax at my hand, that's gonna be a lot of pressure. It's gonna take quite a bit different glove, that if I take a box cutter, and I just do a motion, with a couple pounds of pressure, where I'm trying to cut tape off a box, completely different thought process.

It's wrapping our minds around what that is. Let me give a little caveat, as when we talk about cuts, let's say, we're handling material. Let's say we're handling sheet metal. If we have the wrong polymer on the glove, or the wrong, a lot of the flat dip gloves that are out there now, can have nitrile, they can have polyurethane, there could be nitrile that has air blown through it, so it can absorb stuff, and give you a better grip on different materials. If you have silicone on the palm, and it's wet, it's gonna be slick. So, how to say, we can grab something with a glove, that is cut resistant, and slip, and then just because we're holding on to the weight of the item, and we slip, all of a sudden, we cut a glove that is meant for cut resistance.

So, there's a lot of different moving parts in there, but the biggest things we have to remember, is how sharp is the edge, how much pressure, and we're gonna take that, and then we're gonna go into the new cut protection standard. I believe it's ASTM 2292, which replaced ASTM 1790, and when we look at those, it used to be an A1 through an A5, now it's an A1 through an A9. If you contact one of your safety professionals, they'll be able to kind of, work with you to go, "You have a limited rest, let's go with an A2." Or, "You're gonna cut your damn hand off, you dumb ass, so let's go with an A7, 8, 9." Again, it's evaluating what's going on there.

Fred:

Yeah, and I bet you, sometime in the future, there'll be an episode, in regards to cut protection. If I had to take a guess. So, all right. How about, here's a question, "For fit testing, respirator fit testing, we know we need to fit test for our respirators. Do we have to fit test on a paper mask?"

Dave:

Oh, yes. Maybe, no? Rule of thumb, is if you wear a respirator, yes, go through all means, and methods that you need to. I'm gonna try and cook this down as quick as I can. Most things that say respirator on the box, are a NIOSH approved device. Those are the guys that test the respirators, they say yes, that filters out particulates, vapors, whatever the hell we're trying to get out of there. So, once it says that, then it requires that fit test, which before you have to fit test, you have to have the medical evaluation. Medical evaluation, and pulmonary function test, test whether, "I can breathe enough." That I could pull air in, and out of a respirator, without expiring.

Maybe there's mental issues, maybe I'm claustrophobic, and I really should put anything on my face, because I have a mental issue. Those are all things that you should think about, before you just go, "Yeah, here's, people call them paper masks, so I get it, it looks like a piece of paper, with a couple rubber bands around it, or string, or whatever, around it." The rule of thumb is, yes you need to test that.

Here's one of the things that people go round, and round is, "Well, I'm an employer, and I don't require anybody to wear a respirator, but Nancy over here, she's kind of a weirdo, like a germaphobe, and she still wants to wear that respirator." You're still required to over see that, because she's wearing them in the workplace. Since she's wearing it, yeah, you still need to do that fit test.

The fit test can be qualitative, quantitative, whichever you want. Obviously, the qualitative is gonna be the easiest one to check off on.

Fred:

So, is there a difference between a 'respirator', and a 'dust mask', or is that the same thing? Or can be called the other? I thought I had heard that a dust mask, technically a dust mask, like doesn't require a fit test, is that not the case?

Dave:

Well, the only thing that really doesn't really require it, the word nuisance.

Fred:

Okay.

Dave:

A nuisance mask. So, a nuisance means, it's not filtering anything to a degree.

Fred:

Just keeping it out of your nose, hopefully.

Dave:

Yeah, there's a chance it'll keep it out of your nose. It's a nuisance, because you could buy a respirator that is a P100, so it is a filtration rate of 99.7% of things grater than .3 microns, but it has nuisance level, or [vocanic 00:46:01] vapor properties in it. Which means, I'll keep a little bit out of it, I'm not saying I'll do anything.

Fred:

What about the-

Dave:

But, again, I'm going back into the caveat of NIOSH approved respirator.

Fred:

Okay. Do the straps mean anything? 'Cause I think I also had heard, that if it had one strap on it, then maybe it's a dust mask, but anything that's a respirator, has two straps on it.

Dave:

Typically, respirators will be a dual strap device, because you're trying to keep it fit against the face. So usually a strap will be high, and a strap will be low.

Fred:

That's most likely, what are you protecting them against? If you're protecting anything that's-

Dave:

I would look at the box, and does it say respirator anywhere on there, and does it say, NIOSH anywhere? Because if you see any of those two words, then you need to really go after a fit test.

Fred:

Yeah, but most likely, if they're wearing it for a reason, they probably need to be fit test for it.

Dave:

Yeah.

Fred:

There's a reason. All right. Well, fair enough. How about, I think that's it for our questions, how about we move on to Fred's Shark Tank ideas? I got some million dollars ideas here, I wanna try and shoot them to you, on protective footwear, see if you're interested in-

Dave:

But I gotta know, which Shark, am I the bald guy?

Fred:

Mr. Wonderful?

Dave:

The old real estate lady?

Fred:

I think you're the QVC lady.

Dave:

Okay.

Fred:

I'm seeing you as the QVC lady. Hybrid QVC lady, hybrid Mark Cuban.

Dave:

Okay, great. So.

Fred:

You kind of got your athletic gear on right now, so I feel-

Dave:

Go Keds, go.

Fred:

I feel like, you're in between those two. All right, heres my number one-

Dave:

I'm in between those two?

Fred:

Yeah.

Dave:

Thank you for that.

Fred:

You're not full Cuban, like you're full Cuban.

Dave:

Yeah, right.

Fred:

Anyways. So, my first one here, for some of my female workers, I'm thinking some stylish work boots, with the fur. 'Cause she's got them Apple Bottom Jeans, and the work boots with the fur.

Dave:

I'm not sure how far that'll go. I'm gonna give that a ... that's not selling.

Fred:

Okay. Maybe grade me outta one to ten. You're not invested in that one? Okay, how about thigh high, steel toes?

Dave:

In the sex industry, maybe?

Fred:

I don't know. You might need them, they might be useful.

Dave:

That's what I'm saying.

Fred:

Okay, I was more thinking of like, a girl that works hard, and plays hard. She likes to go to work, be protected, on her toes. Then afterwards, she wants to wear them out for a cosmopolitan.

Dave:

Thigh high?

Fred:

Thigh high, yeah dude. Leather goes up the ... so you're not interested in that one either?

Dave:

No.

Fred:

How about metatarsals, but the have the roller skates built into the heels? You can go-

Dave:

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Fred:

You like that one?

Dave:

Well, think about this, any manufacturing facility, where you got those metatarsals on, you take that first two big steps, and then, you kind of lean back on that roller skate, and just skate all the way down to the other end of the plant.

Fred:

Or if you're-

Dave:

'Cause you usually have those stupid, gator looking machines that are yellow, with the unicycle wheel on the front of it.

Fred:

Yep. Okay, so you like that one? That could be a good one, like I'm working on one side of the plant, now I need to go over here to the other side of the plant, and you just skate on through.

Dave:

They take off on that real quick, one, two, three, step.

Fred:

Yeah. How about just could be a nice safety factor, light up when you step, like the little kids, used to have the L.A. Gear.

Dave:

Digital awareness.

Fred:

Yeah, you get some light ups, you can see somebody coming-

Dave:

[inaudible 00:49:30] 107 class four shoes.

Fred:

Does that exist?

Dave:

No.

Fred:

So, lets say, I'm getting aced out of this idea?

Dave:

Yeah.

Fred:

But think about that.

Dave:

No, I'm saying we create a whole standard, where you're required in a work environment.

Fred:

High visibility, work shoe.

Dave:

Yeah, after dark.

Fred:

That might be good, for guys on the street, working roadways.

Dave:

Or like the little, you know, you get those little fat little toddlers, that are about 18 months, and they put those little squeaker shoes on there.

Fred:

Same difference. All right, heres a good one. They released a crystal clear Pepsi, how about crystal clear work boots?

Dave:

No, 'cause ain't nobody wanna see anybody's feet.

Fred:

Any piggies? No?

Dave:

That's disgusting.

Fred:

Different strokes, for different folks.

Dave:

Most people have ugly ass feet.

Fred:

Yeah. Well, anyways. So you added steel toed golf shoes. So, if you're out on the course, you're just gonna get in nine, and then head to the office afterwards?

Dave:

Yeah, they're not steel anymore, you're not gonna walk in and be crunch, crunch, crunch. Most of them are like little plastic things, you'd never even know they're there.

Fred:

Removable spikes. Are you saying this is spikeless? A spikeless version?

Dave:

Yeah, not the heavy ... now they have like, little, I don't know, they're like little spider things on the bottom of the shoes.

Fred:

So, it sounds like we had two winners, we can definitely reach out to us via emails, if you're interested in investing in any of these ideas. If any of the big boot manufacturers out there wanna get a piece, I'm interested in talking.

Dave:

Hey, everything's on the table.

Fred:

Yeah, we're for sale. Advertisement, whatever you guys wanna do. I think that's it for today, times up. Thank you guys for listening. Again, made it through six episodes.

Dave:

Six.

Fred:

So, we're-

Dave:

Six pack.

Fred:

We're gonna keep plugging along, glad you stuck it out. To reward you, we'll be back next week, with more safety stories. So, safety's an important topic, half the world is not talking about it, like it is. We're just trying to change that. Once again, leave us some comments, ask questions, jump into our social media conversations, whatever works best for you. Once again, we're Facebook, we're Twitter, we're Linked In. Really, whatever works for you. Shine some light on the subject, so we can avoid the stories, and the tragedy, and someone saying, "I just never thought about the danger."

In this age of information we can really do better. So, until next time.

Fred:

Safety has no quitting time. See you later.

Intro Announcer:

Thanks for listening in to Dave, and Bacon's Safety Tales. Brought to you by Quad City Safety. Send us your questions on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitter, @quadcitysafety, #safetytales, or email them to fred@quadcitysafety.com. He's the guy keeping this mess of a show, in line, and if you like the show, please wait and review us on iTunes. It's a kick ass way to show that you care about safety.