Intro Speaker:

Dave and Bacon's Safety Tales, the only industrial safety podcast that brings you common sense advice on job site safety, standards, regulations, and Industry Best Practices without putting you to sleep.

Fred Radunzel:

Alright, we're back to another episode of Dave and Bacon's Safety Tales coming to you right after recording after the Fourth of July.

Dave White:

Post-Fourth of July. I didn't lose anything. I got all my, all my fingers and toes. None of my kids have sparkler burns. So I came out ... Well, I did burn my arm once.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

Cooking a hog, so-

Fred Radunzel:

What happened there? You got a quite a gash.

Dave White:

Yeah. Well no, that's a burn. So basically, hit a lid that was hot, very hot, and then it goes to blister and then you know, you try to keep it from popping.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. Inevitably it is.

Dave White:

[crosstalk 00:00:56]

Fred Radunzel:

As I say, it looks like you're going to ... That's gonna be a scar.

Dave White:

Yeah, I got them all over me.

Fred Radunzel:

Yep.

Dave White:

A bunch of stupid stuff I've done in my life.

Fred Radunzel:

Did you guys do fireworks?

Dave White:

Yeah, we threw a bunch up last night.

Fred Radunzel:

At home? You do them yourself?

Dave White:

[crosstalk 00:01:08]

Fred Radunzel:

You are the show? You don't go to a show?

Dave White:

Used to go to shows, but the kids are kind of in those ages where they want to do it-

Fred Radunzel:

With their friends?

Dave White:

Yeah, so we go buy. It's amazing because, you know, me growing up we would buy a gross of bottle rockets and that was like the best thing ever. And you know, whistle, pop, whistle, pop.

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

Now, I mean in my neighborhood I've got, you know, like a regular, like a small town’s, old Fourth of July, fireworks going off on every street. You consider, like last year I can ... I was as in the hospital last year, so I was on the fourth floor of Genesis, and it was probably the most spectacular thing I've ever seen because you have a ... You can see everything, and I'm literally like, there's got to be, you know, tens of thousands of dollars every minute just go up-

Fred Radunzel:

Popping off?

Dave White:

And popping off because you're just watching ... Because I could see, you know, multiple cities doing theirs, and then, you know, every street. I mean there's things just going up everywhere.

Fred Radunzel:

I don't know how close I'm getting to being able to see fireworks again, but. So I got two at home. Well, what about ... Gotta get him to about four, don't I?

Dave White:

It all depends on how they respond and the noise.

Fred Radunzel:

He doesn't mind the noise. It's the being up that late.

Dave White:

Oh, well.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, it's the all of a sudden, I'm waiting for fireworks, and we're melting down because it's 8:30 and bedtime's 7:30. And fireworks aren't starting till 9:45.

Dave White:

Yeah, I mean, that's a hard one. I mean, parents today are a whole lot better about instilled bedtimes, you know.

Fred Radunzel:

You see that? I saw pictures of the kids on like Facebook or something like that with the ear muffs on, like, I know I never had any hearing protection on.

Dave White:

No, no, no.

Fred Radunzel:

You hear those blasts.

Dave White:

Oh, some of the stuff that we bought, you know ... I don't know, probably $3 for one shell to go up, but I mean, them things take off. It's just like, man, that's, you know, you can see why, how to say, safety is a huge concern.

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

Because I'm like, guys, you all got to step back a little bit farther than that. I mean, y'all are almost like looking down the tube waiting for it to-

Fred Radunzel:

Shoot right in your face.

Dave White:

Pop out, and I'm like, you know, you don't know ... They were trying to do multiples. You know, so have multiple, and I'm like, guys, this is a cardboard tube. When that thing launches out of there, it's going to knock the rest of this stuff up.

Fred Radunzel:

It's coming.

Dave White:

That you're setting up. And then when one goes and explodes in the garage and literally we have no more house.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. You're going to be crying.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Because Santa's not coming this year.

Dave White:

No, not for a long time.

Fred Radunzel:

So well anyways, Fred Radunzel, Dave White with Quad City Safety. Keep doing this podcast, say it every week, but please reach out to us with questions or anything we can help with safety related. Check out our website, quadcitysafety.com. Every episode of Dave and Bacon's Safety Tales is brought to you by quadcitysafety.com, so check it out.

Today, we're going to try and talk a little bit about a disposable clothing, disposable protective clothing, or chemical clothing. I mean, there's a million names for it out there.

Dave White:

Paper suit.

Fred Radunzel:

I was gonna say, it starts off with someone saying, I just need a paper suit, or I need Tyveks.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Is pretty much what it comes down to. If you don't have a direct knowledge of what you're talking about, you'd probably call them Tyveks or paper suits. So you kind of want to get into it here? We work with a few different brands ... Actually, there's more and more brands, it seems like every year that try to get into this space. I don't know if it seems like it's easy picking for them to-

Dave White:

It's always oscillated back and forth.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

Where you'll have somebody come in there and buy other people, and then it kind of spreads out. And then does Dupont want to sell Tyvek to what they call a converter or just the person that cuts the Tyvek that you see on people's ... That they're putting on people's houses is pretty much the same thing that you're seeing people, you know, make suits out of. So, it's basically who's given the ability to convert, but then you've had a plethora of people have figured out their own rolled goods.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

So, what they're making the suits out of. So, once they figure out a recipe that seems to work okay, then they're in the game.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. They'll launch, and it's making sure they get the right price point and doing all that stuff.

Dave White:

Yeah, and then there's, we'll get into it later, but I mean it's ... They're not all created equal. So depends on what you're getting in as to what you need. I mean you can have disposable suits that are expensive, and then you can have ones that are, you know, dollar.

Fred Radunzel:

Right?

Dave White:

[crosstalk 00:06:07]

Fred Radunzel:

And they might look the same.

Dave White:

They might look exactly ... They're probably going to look exactly the same.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. A white suit looks like a white suit.

Dave White:

Yep. And when you really start peeling it apart, it's like mmm, that's not necessarily the case.

Fred Radunzel:

So, that kinda leads into the conversation to, step one is kind of figuring out what are we protecting against.

Dave White:

Yeah, yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Are we talking liquids? Are we talking particulates, right?

Dave White:

Yeah. Well you got a lot of different things to pay attention to because even you got to think about things that you might be exposed to. So yeah, the first thing to start with is, is it just like dust?

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

Or is it actually something that's wet? Because you kind of have to have that because some of these woven suits, you know, they're great for if you're crawling around on some dirt or you know, getting to a crawl space to have basically a barrier so you don't mess your clothes up or get ... So, you can come out of the space, take it off and your-

Fred Radunzel:

Get the rat turds off of you when you're climbing through the attic.

Dave White:

But then, so you've got that base level, which is really not truly any protection at all. It's just basically whether you're being clean or not.

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

And you know, then it gets into-

Fred Radunzel:

Think about like a booty when like you're on a construction site, and you don't want to go walk in on the carpet, you just put their little booty on over your foot so that your shoe doesn't get things dirty.

Dave White:

Yeah, so it's more of a ... How to say? It's more of a custodial factor than anything-

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

Have somebody come in there, and we're just trying to keep stuff clean.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

Then you get into, you know, oils, waters, and chemicals that then all of a sudden, a little bit nicer suit, like Tyvek does very well against, you know, waters and oils to where you don't have it seep through where you would put on a, like we were saying two suits that look pretty close.

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

I mean you set them side by side, and yeah, they're a little bit, you know, the feel of the materials a little bit different, but then that's where the rubber meets the road. When you get down into that, that puddle of crap and start waddling in it, and what happens from there? So you have to pay attention to ... And again, some of that is more centered around being clean versus really giving some level of protection.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

Because when you start getting into stuff that you may not want to get into yourself. I mean, yeah, you could use it, I guess theoretically you could use it to keep lead off of you. Maybe you're in an environment that there's lead residue, and you want to go in and not have it on your clothes when you go home. So having an outer garment might help, but let's say that we're around, were pouring some type of chemical, and you want to have protection against the chemical. Then you start entering, typically it'll be a coded type suit. You know, it's something a little bit more than ... A lot of times there'll be yellow so they'll actually have a coating over the top of a Tyvek or another material.

Fred Radunzel:

Or even into like spraying, right? There's different things that you got to look for when you're spraying something as opposed to dipping your arm in something?

Dave White:

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Are you submerging yourself into something? Because you know, some of them will be okay for contact, but you know, not if you're going to sit there and bathe. If you're swimming around in it, we're going to jump in a pool and doggy paddle across it, probably wouldn't wear the same thing as you would in other situations.

Fred Radunzel:

How much do you know about like the different fabrics like is ...? Do you know of like a fat ...  I know it's each brand is going to have their proprietary names for what it is-

Dave White:

Most of the time-

Fred Radunzel:

but is there like generic terms for-

Dave White:

SMS is a big one that they'll call it.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

And basically SMS, it just means that it's a material with a scrim. So, when we say scrim, it's something to keep it from ripping.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

It will be a base material with like, like a woven, a checkerboard in it.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

Like you'll see stuff that has rip stop or whatever. You'll see that in like clothing to where it rips one little piece, and it doesn't continue because there's ... So, an SMS will typically be that construction.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

The cheap, cheap stuff is usually just, you know, some blown poly.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

I mean, so there's nothing special about it. It's just literally they've heated something up and sprayed it against something to make a flat material.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. And that's more of the keep it off of you.

Dave White:

Keep it off of you, yeah. We're not really getting a protection factor there. We're just trying to keep clean, or we could be trying to keep something that we're, you know, some kind of particulate that, it's airborne in it off of our clothes so we don't leave with it.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. Or it can be a ... I guess what's more like when we're talking about different chemicals, I assume then they're gonna have more and more aggressive fabrics to withstand certain chemicals, and they've all went through a testing?

Dave White:

Yep.

Fred Radunzel:

That's when they're saying that they'll protect you from a chemical, it's because they've treated it with that chemical, or tested it with that chemical to make sure that it will withstand that.

Dave White:

Spray and splash, you know, just like we were talking is going to yield different suits. But yeah, you gotta kinda know ... It's just like a chemical resistant glove when you go to go, what glove do I need here? You have to know, what am I talking? That something that's an acid, or is it a base?

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

And then, how concentrated is this acid or this base, to really figure out. And a lot of times even when you get into, you know, as you start stepping up the protection levels, usually you're starting to get into, am I going into a level B situation where I may need a respirator? Or am I in a level A, where I need to have my whole environment is inside the suit? Si that I'm either supplying air to my little bubble or am I, you know, maybe I'll have a SCBA inside my little bubble, but I'm all contained in that.

So again, as you start moving up that protection factor, typically there's a lot of other things that you're starting to worry about, you know. Maybe I have a chemical suit, but maybe I need to wear gloves with the chemical suit. Well all of a sudden I got a gap. So, do I need to tape those gloves on?

Fred Radunzel:

Yep,

Dave White:

Meaning do I need to make sure that there's not a surface for them to go through? Because like when we were talking about the base level garments, you've got different configurations in seams. So, you can have just a basic heat sealed seam can happen, or it'll be what's called surged, so it's just literally sown. Then, you may have an issue where you need to worry about chemicals coming through. So, they may surge the seams, and then tape them.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay.

Dave White:

So, they'll actually tape that seam so that, you know, where it's sewn together, it doesn't seep in on you. So again, knowing what-

Fred Radunzel:

And there's some of them too that like they'll even do a second layer then? Like it'll be taped, and then it'll have something else because they found out that some chemical can start to mess with that tape. So the tape might be keeping chemical A out, but chemical B will soak through it. And so now they got to do something different with a glue or with a, you know.

Fred Radunzel:

Somethin' different with a glue or with a second layer of tape or something like that.

Dave White:

No doubt about it.

Fred Radunzel:

So, strength would be one thing that they're testin' probably puncture and they're testin'-

Dave White:

Yeah there's all kinds of, I don't remember-

Fred Radunzel:

I saw something about a trapezoidal tear that they have to go through that test.

Dave White:

Yeah there's a list of tests that they go through and if they're protecting against something else then obviously before they could say that is they would have to test the permeation, how long it takes for it to actually get through there.

Fred Radunzel:

And then you're just talking about those heavy-duty suits that you might have to take a separate test on, protection against something that's infectious.

Dave White:

So, I'm just lookin' here so they would test abrasion, they would test puncture, test it flexing, how pliable is it. Utensil strength. Is it anti-static and then seam strength. And then it gets into the permeation or resistance to the liquid penetrations. So, I mean there's a whole, looks like most of them are ISO tests so I would say you do it to one you have to do it to the other.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay. So, I pulled a little chart that 3M did and I think we gave me one that Lakeland did as well but the 3M I think was kinda cool because it starts with alright, 'Do you require protection from liquids or particulates?' And then it's like, it's a choose your own adventure. You go one direction or you go the other direction. Particulates, then we can talk about flame resistant, so heat's going to be a major concern on some of these. How hot are you? Or are you arc flash rated? Because there's fire retardant disposable clothing that they make too. It could be that you're wearing your regular fire resistant coveralls. My phone just started picking up on everything I was saying. I accidentally hit a button on it so just recording my every word.

So, you might be wearing [crosstalk 00:16:22]-

Dave White:

FR but you can also have CRFR. So chemical resistant flame resistant. Again, stuff that we sell that I would hope that I would never have to put in because you're talking about some cataclysmic events that you have potential for.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. But I think that, an FR situation, a lot of people would think I'm wearing my FR clothing and I just put my suit on top of it and then all of a sudden your suit melts so you're not thinking about this disposable suit that you're putting on that also needs to be that. Breathability. I think that's going to be a major concern depending on what job you're doing. Can it breathe?

Dave White:

Yeah, they're doing some pretty cool stuff out there like open backs you'll see. It'll be a Tyvek suit but then in the back where there's no, how to say, not zero potential but less potential to have any stuff splash on the front of it. So you're not in this because most any suit is gonna be hot. Just inherently it's like throwing on one of those jumpers when you were a kid. Little zip up things, you were either sweating and you needed to come out of it, or just right.

Fred Radunzel:

Or a wrestling suit, when you see the wrestlers trying to lose that weight and they put on something that looks like a Tyvek suit. Comes over the top, they seal it up tight, they tape it around their wrist, tape it around their ankles-

Dave White:

And that-

Fred Radunzel:

...makes a sweat suit.

Dave White:

Gets into another thing that we didn't really get into is there's all kinds of configurations of does it have a hood, does it not have a hood?

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, booties.

Dave White:

Does it have just straight, meaning no elastic in the wrist, no elastic in the ankles? Or does it have elastic in the wrist and in the ankles? Maybe it has an attached boot so that it, maybe it doesn't have an attached boot. Maybe it's a regular zipper, maybe it's got a storm fly and tape that goes over it. So, there is a ton of configurations-

Fred Radunzel:

Something that might go better with a respirator. That might go around that. Chemical gloves or if you want to go over your boots, can your boots be exposed? There's booties that go inside your boots right? They'll protect your feet but your boot goes on the outside of it.

Dave White:

There's, just depends on what you're in.

Fred Radunzel:

And pretty much all of this stuff-

Dave White:

And that's why you need a safety professional to-

Fred Radunzel:

Help you out.

Dave White:

...work with ya.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. Is anything that's disposable, doesn't necessarily have to be, I guess if it's a disposable it's going to be a one-time use sort of thing. So that's why not all protective clothing is the same so I know there's super expensive level whatever, level A suits.

Dave White:

A lot of those are reusable.

Fred Radunzel:

That's reusable.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

But most of your stuff, you use it once, whatever you were protecting yourself from probably was on the suit, you throw it away and you get another one.

Dave White:

Unless you're just wearing it, again, just to keep the dirt off. I guess it doesn't matter at that point in time but if you're actually wearing ... I wanna be on the other side of what that is.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. I know I had a customer that they buy one size of suit and then it seemed like they would tape it for their smaller employees. Have you ever heard of anybody doing that? We buy 3X. We don't have anyone bigger than 3X.

Dave White:

It's not uncommon for people to buy the biggest that somebody is-

Fred Radunzel:

Because you're buying them in cases [crosstalk 00:20:13] of 25, or 40 or whatever it is to do that. The quotes that was in one of these that I was reading was, 'If all you have is a hammer, everything look like a nail.' And so you might need different suits for different applications depending on what the work is and if every suit is just a white, plain suit that doesn't look anything different from one another, how do your guys really know what they're getting into? So, I think coloring, color coding-

Dave White:

I've heard of a lot of people do a color coding, like if they're just doing a poly prop they might do the blue and then something that's got more protection might be a white suit. Could be a configuration of hoods-

Fred Radunzel:

Like those breathable suits that you were mentioning. I don't even know what brand it is but some of them have where the breathable section on the back is blue.

Dave White:

Yep.

Fred Radunzel:

So, the suit's all white but there's a triangle on the back where that thing breathes. That's blue, so that would give you good awareness to say that suit that they're wearing is the breathable version and maybe if you're in something where the chemical that you're working with would permeate the back of the suit you'd know, okay he's in the green suit right there. Or he's in the suit that's got a hood on it, his hood's up so we know he's using the right suit here.

I don't know, what else you got? You got anything else on the protective clothing aspect?

Dave White:

Just one to keep in mind is starting to see a little bit more in the FR series because people are decked out in two hundred and something dollars’ worth of daily wear and then they're doing a nasty job or whatever and they're getting that oils and stuff into their FR clothing which really negates what you're trying to do there because despite the fact that the material if FR doesn't negate the fact that oil can still, you know oil and oily aerosols can still catch fire. So, using that outer protection to again ... Yeah if there's a flash fire they're still rated to help that but trying to keep stuff out of your daily wear is huge because I see people all the time that you kinda look at it and you're like, you know how you can kinda see a stain that looks like it's probably oil?

Fred Radunzel:

Right.

Dave White:

I see a lot of that in FR daily wear and it's like the reason that you're wearing it if that happens, that's an ignition source. So it doesn't, I mean the FR clothing is not going to put out the oil fire on your pants. So just to point that out that we're seeing more people use those in refinery situations.

Fred Radunzel:

One thing else that I did want to note too is that most every single brand that's out there that sells this type of clothing has on their website or they'll probably ship it to you or get in contact with us and we'll get one in your hands, but a selection guide that'll have a list of the 30 chemicals that they most likely are gonna be dealing with and what suit you need for that particular chemical. And it's gonna be what are you protecting yourself from. Let me see here if I had, I think I had a little note here that said ... Where's it at? Okay so whether you're dealing with chlorine or, I'm gonna do one I can pronounce, hydrogen chloride or sulfuric acid.

Dave White:

Was it toluene?

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, I can't ever pronounce it. Cal- calu-

Dave White:

Toluene yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, I try not to, no reason for me to give an example or something I can't pronounce but yeah, so if you're working with these chemicals, a lot of them are probably figured out. They've probably already done the research to figure out what suit you need.

Dave White:

Yeah, you just need to know why you're wearing it and tell us why you're wearing it and then we can help you figure it out from there-

Fred Radunzel:

How you might come in contact with that chemical because I know that's a big ... Every time that I'll bring something like that up to you, you'll be like, 'Well are you getting over spray there? Are they coming in direct contact with it? Are they getting their hands dipped in it?' We're talking a lot of times it seems like it's gloves, but it's like do they put their hands submerged in that stuff? Or is it over spray?

Dave White:

Yeah because it's two totally different things that are happening to the garment.

Fred Radunzel:

Does the palm come in contact-

Dave White:

Cause otherwise-

Fred Radunzel:

...with the back of the hand.

Dave White:

...sell you something that's CRFR and probably a thousand dollars for the suit. Yeah, it does all that, don't worry about it, you can wear it anywhere. Halloween to now.

Fred Radunzel:

So yeah, I think that's about what we got on that topic. I didn't write done a dumbass of the week this week.

Dave White:

You've seen him in the newspaper though.

Fred Radunzel:

Who's that?

Dave White:

How many people have gotten their fingers blown off with fireworks and everything?

Fred Radunzel:

Well that's what I got, I got a whole list here at the end of it that we'll go over of fireworks accidents. It's just right on our sheet here, it just says firework accidents on the end. But no, for a dumbass, I was thinking of somebody that wears this clothing and I know it seems like it's a lot of painters that come in contact with ... They'll put a certain type of suit on that does not give them the protection level that they need. Like a painter, a regular person that paints houses or a regular person that ... Like if you painted your house you wouldn't put on protective clothing most likely. You're just gonna put on your old jeans and your old t-shirt from when you played football in 1992 and that's what you're gonna wear when you do your painting.

So, these guys that are doing industrial painting, they're just gonna grab a paper suit to keep them clean and then all the sudden they go and they're using their sprayers on the house and they take off their suit at the end of the day, they took a look at their clothing, completely covered in paint because they weren't wearing the correct suit for paint. Especially in a spray paint situation you get all that blow back. It goes right through the suit that's not meant to protect you from spraying liquids and all the sudden you're-

Dave White:

Mad.

Fred Radunzel:

You're upset that you've ruined you Z. Cavaricci jeans.

Dave White:

I don't even know what that means.

Fred Radunzel:

Ah, it was like a real popular jean when I was in high school 20 years ago.

Dave White:

Okay.

Fred Radunzel:

Hot chicks would be wearing Z. Cavaricci's. I couldn't afford them. That had been college age for you then.

Dave White:

Probably.

Fred Radunzel:

Anyways.

Dave White:

Everything was Levi's and-

Fred Radunzel:

Levi's still holds up.

Dave White:

No, I was just saying I didn't know what brands were. I wasn't paying attention.

Fred Radunzel:

Everyone had the farmer style pant that you got at Farm and Fleet.

Dave White:

I don't think they're that bad. Sports or whatever.

Fred Radunzel:

They're like sandpaper on you.

Dave White:

Well hell, you buy anything from Carhartt it's got about a year wear in. But then it's good for the next 25.

Fred Radunzel:

Right. So, you spend a little bit more-

Dave White:

Like you see the guys that got one that's getting ready to fall apart and it's like how many generations did it take y'all to get this jacket that destroyed?

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah. Oh I just had, I'm just sitting here, I know I'm getting old at 35, I just moved my leg and my knee popped just from moving my leg like three inches back so I'm starting to get to that old age where you start having random injuries that don't make any sense. You go bowling and then you wake up the next day and you're trying to figure out why your hamstring's so sore and you're like, 'Oh yeah it's my bowling method.'

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

... Trying to figure out why your hamstring's all sore and you're like, "Oh yeah, it's my bowling method that I used."

Dave White:

Have to go through the efforts. Yeah, I've got a hip that, I don't know, it keeps getting stiff, so I have to stretch it out every morning so I don't look like I'm hobbling.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, my wife, she's got the old lady knees that the weather changes a little bit. She's like, "Rain's coming." Rain's coming and her knee starts hurting.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Her mom's like, "You're too young to have that happen to you." Nope, it's coming. Anyways, let's move on to our little Q&A for the day. I got a couple questions here, two of them are submitted, one I did a little bit of research on and found out the question was out there. Number one, I have an employee that wears an extra small high-vis vest, is there a concern that she won't have enough reflective material to be compliant for high-vis?

Dave White:

Not if it's marked that it's ANSE 107 whatever class. Basically, the last revision of the standard, that was one of the problems is pursuant to the standard you had to have so many square inches of background material, whether it's green or orange. The problem was you couldn't get anything below a small because you couldn't get enough background material, so nobody made it. You still had these little, pretty thing people, walking around having this big dress hanging off of them. So they kind of hit that in the standard as, "Yes, you can get smaller vests." There still is a requirement of how many square inches of background material there is, I don't know exactly what that is. But again, as long as it's marked with that ANSE 107 and what the class is, then you should be okay.

Fred Radunzel:

You'd be in compliance? All right. Number two, what does an LEL sensor on a gas monitor actually detect? I had that question from a customer this week, it was like, "What's PH3?" Is PH3 something? I don't remember what it is, whatever that stands for. I think it was PH3. They were looking to detect some of that, or they were in an area-

Dave White:

Phosphene?

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, I don't know what it is. Anyway, the LEL sensor doesn't cover it, and they were under the impression that it did cover whatever that is. But come to find out, it did not cover that, so what does an LEL sensor actually cover? This is something that, I've been around six years and I just know, "Oh, they need LEL." But I don't even really know what it does.

Dave White:

LEL stands for lower explosive limit. Basically it's dealing with the whole fire triangle. When we say the fire triangle, to start a fire you need a couple things. You need oxygen, you need a fuel source, and you need an ignition. Basically what that sensor's doing is it ... There are LEL sensors now that are infrared, so they do it a little bit different than the traditional, the traditional being the catalytic bead sensor. Basically all it's trying to do is mimic little miniature explosions. It's looking for a VOC, a volatile organic compound, so something that's going to blow up, kind of the whole lighter fluid thing.

And then testing to see if you're getting a concentration to where you're approaching that lower explosive limit where you think that you could have a potential ... You could blow something up. And it could be methane, pentane, anything really with an 'ane', A-N-E, is going to be a volatile organic compound and can blow up. That's what the traditional catalytic sensor bead is looking for. The infrared is quite a bit different, but I'm still not sold on those yet.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay. Phosphene by the way, it was phosphene, I looked it up on my phone while you were talking. That was the-

Dave White:

I was close.

Fred Radunzel:

Definitely went 'phos', we definitely started 'phos', I don't know how we finished off.

Dave White:

Okay. Well it's on the recording, so ...

Fred Radunzel:

All right, last one. Yeah, you be the judge, let us know what we said. Last one I had was, do particulate respirators have a specific service life?

Dave White:

Not really, because when you talk about service life there's so many things that go into it. But just the general rule of thumb is if it's getting harder for you to breathe through, it's probably at the end of its service life. Typically you're never going to use a disposable to the end of its service life because I would say they're kind of spongy, so as you're blowing humidity out of it, if you don't have a valve on it you're putting ... A lot of what comes out of you is moist, moist warm air comes out of body, which causes a respirator to plug up quicker. But no, there's not any really specific guidelines that says, "Four hours and throw it away."

Fred Radunzel:

So, in your opinion, a disposable, at the end of the day you throw it away, right? You don't save them. I mean, I've seen people put things in plastic bags and try and do that, but usually that would be a cartridge, not necessarily a disposable respirator.

Dave White:

Yeah, usually if you're doing that ... Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Use it once, throw it away.

Dave White:

Thus, the disposable.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

I mean, that's the main reason to go from a disposable to a half face or a full face, is if you're wearing it over time and you want to get more uses out of it.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay, cool. All right.

Dave White:

The thing also is, yes, you do still have to fit test them.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah.

Dave White:

The disposables.

Fred Radunzel:

If it's a NIASH approved respirator, if it starts with an N95, or an N99, or a P99, or a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dave White:

Still have people that want to say, "No, you don't have to do that." Yeah, you really do.

Fred Radunzel:

Because they do make different sizes, they do fit people's faces differently.

Dave White:

Correct.

Fred Radunzel:

Anyhow, we'll close up that box until next week. Before we leave here, since it was Fourth of July yesterday, I did see a couple of two fingers blown off type of thing. I did a quick Google search and I found a list that VICE put together for a collection of Dumb, Dangerous, and Avoidable Fireworks Accidents. The first one that they had was that in Columbia, this one's Columbia, so you know it's all by the book when they're doing it there. They had fireworks and they were storing gunpowder in the same place. The gunpowder got ignited so all the fireworks in the place went off and the building blew up. But this is one I've actually seen multiple times with my own two eyes, but a 21 year old Brooklyn man lost his right finger after some fireworks exploded in his hand. He was reportedly smoking a cigar at the time. Holding the unlit firework, smoking a cigar, lit the firework with the cigar, explodes in his hand.

I got, child drops firecracker on a manhole and then flew through the air, flew 10 feet up in the air when it went off. It says, "Boy was hurled 10 feet in the air after lighting a firecracker on top of a manhole.

Dave White:

That's yet another thing, if you would've had your monitor ... One of the questions was ... That's where an LEL sensor, if they'd kind of had an LEL sensor it would've gone, "We have something coming out of the manhole that's going to blow up.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, it said a buildup of bio-gases in the sewer, so whatever that means. Here one, 2016 in Chicago, all of a sudden somebody's dog came running up to them, and it had someone's hand, it was carrying someone's hand that had been blown off. Yeah, basically a half stick of dynamite, basically was right by them and that's what exploded and blew off someone's hand, and then their dog came and brought it back. Fetch.

Dave White:

It blew it off of them and then spot retrieved it and brought it back?

Fred Radunzel:

I think took it to somebody else. They expected them to walk up with a tennis ball and it was someone's hand.

Dave White:

Yeah. Looked at it and go, "Drop, drop. Oh."

Fred Radunzel:

Goddamn alligator got my hand in the ninth fairway.

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Earlier this year, 600 sparklers were ignited in a Texas man's trunk. He was in a parking lot showing friends all the fireworks he planned to light at midnight when someone lit a rocket nearby. The car only sustained major paint damage, but pretty good night for that guy.

Dave White:

Have you ever seen a sparkler bomb?

Fred Radunzel:

No.

Dave White:

I was introduced to those a couple of years ago.

Fred Radunzel:

Okay. They just tie them all together?

Dave White:

Yeah. You put a group of them together and then you take electrical tape and you keep going around them, and you build a line up, and you just leave one of the ends of one of them sticking out and that's your fuse. The whole thing is when you light that, then it gets in there and it lights the rest of those sparklers. Well, there's a ton of gas that comes off, I mean, a ton. And all of a sudden, it sounds like a stick of dynamite going off. It's unbelievable, you should actually-

Fred Radunzel:

Check it out?

Dave White:

You should check that out on YouTube or whatever.

Fred Radunzel:

All right. The last one that was on there was just about ... Oh, it doesn't even make sense. It's a NASCAR driver that they did a fireworks celebration after he won the race and one of them hit him in the ass. So, burned his ass.

Dave White:

Checkered flag.

Fred Radunzel:

Car was okay though. And then there was one that was a ... And I've actually seen something similar to this happen, but it was where the entire fireworks show caught, so they had their pile they were going to have this 15 minute show on and they all lit at the same time and just exploded at once. The 15 minute firework show lasted about 20 seconds. You've seen something like that happen where it's supposed to be a grand finale and all of a sudden it gets lit and they all shoot up in the air at the same time and you're like, "Wha, wha, wha."

Dave White:

Yeah.

Fred Radunzel:

Yeah, anything else to touch on for the day?

Dave White:

Nope, nope.

Fred Radunzel:

Good to go? All right, well that's it. We really appreciate everyone listening to us on this holiday week, which by the time you guys get this it'll be August. So, enjoy our fireworks stories in August. Hope you guys stay tuned for next week's episode. We just want to help everybody make it home safe. That's great, we appreciate you listening, safety's got no quitting time, until next week. Thanks.

Intro Speaker:

Thanks for listening in to Dave and Bacon's safety tales, brought to you by Quad City Safety. Send us your questions on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitter @QuadCitySafety, #SafetyTales, or email them to Fred@QuadCitySafety.com, he's the guy keeping this mess of a show in line. If you like the show, please rate and review us on iTunes, it's a kick-ass way to show that you care about safety.